Does anybody uses Realm Cloud for production?

cloud

#1

We are a small team working with Realm Cloud for several months developing multi-user version of our existing Android application.
We are currently on a $30 Standard plan for now.
We are very close to releasing our app to open beta testing making it available to users but we can’t do this because of several issues we experience. I am still not sure how reliable is Realm Cloud for production application.

Here are the issues I am concerned about:

  1. When we delete a user our realm becomes unavailable for several hours! Dashboard just shows ‘Your instance is getting ready …’ and animation.
    The last incident has happened yesterday and the realm is unavailable for over 28 hours now.
    When I reported the similar issue to support earlier they said that it happens, they know about such an issue and working to resolve that problem, but it was over a month ago.

  2. Even Pro plan for $250 month provides so called ‘Pro-support 5x9’. But what if such a downtime appears during a week-end or out of 9 working hours.
    We have tens of thousands users in our current single-user application working with a local database and I expect having several thousands users in the new app allowing multi-user access. But if they experience half-a-day downtimes they won’t be happy.
    Only Enterprise plan guarantees 24x7 support but I am not sure we can afford it since we are a very small team.

  3. Number of open issues on Github = 421. Our own issue remains without an answer for 13 days.
    https://github.com/realm/realm-java/issues/6492
    Again, it seems that nobody cares. With other platforms and tools you most probably can find an answer in Google but with Realm community and information is very limited.

I even do not understand how much one should pay to ensure a proper support and timely responses.
Moreover, it looks highly possible that paying more won’t ensure the same increase in quality.

I see that activity on Realm forums is quite low but anyway:
Is there anybody who uses Synced Realms for production?
Do you use Shared Cloud, Dedicated Cloud or self-hosted Relam Server?
What is you experience using Realm Cloud or Realm Server, are they reliable?


#2

Very interesting question.


#3

Realm is not available for more than 48 hours. Support does not answer.
My plan $30/month does not include support.
With $250/month you will also have only 5x9 support.
I am thinking what kind of application we can create for users:
‘Our app works offline and sync when you are online but only 9 hours per day excluding weekends’


#4

Yeah, this issues concernes me too.
[storyTime]
In my previous app, we used Azure Application Services (aka mobile services) to sync the users data to a database. Windows Phone, android and iOS version was on the store, and we got lucky: the appStore on iOS recommended us for two week in a few categories, almost every country.
So, the users started to download the app and use it.
On the first day we scaled up our servers so we could handle the load, but it wasnt enough on the second day.
$12k/month and the users still experienced a lot of issues - not syncing, timeouts etc.
We contacted the support but they cant help us.
I can see those stats in my nightmares till today - and it was 4 years ago.

Oh, btw we got only 20-30k new users per day, yet we still cant handled them.
[/storyTime]

So, what if we run in the same situation? Does somebody actually know that how much users can we actually handle with the $30 plan?
5GB database size is not too big, what if we run out of space? How can we handle this and what is the test cases?
What will be the cost of an additional 5GB, or an additional 25GB? There is no public info of that :confused:
What is the availability rates of the realm hosted server?
The self hosted version cost waaay too much for a small project.

These are the most painful issues that i can see - i hope it will improve soon with the new acquisition.


#5

I have the same concerns as well. We are coming closer to going live with our app and there are lots of problems with Realm - connection outages, new versions seems to often break existing and working code. My impression is that it is not ready for production use and I am debating how much effort it would require to move to another solution like firebase. But we are so close to golive now that it is becoming very dangerous to do a fundamental tech switch. But risking the stability of our app is also not desirable. So in a tight spot…


#6

Hi wildfisher…

28h unavailability is not a great or acceptable experience for us (irrespective of plan level).
It seems that we did not detect the service impact on you, which is strange and should not happen.

I saw as well that you opened a support ticket, which helps us. Our support system is staffed within multiple regions, therefore we have more eyeballs that allow responding.

Let’s find the root cause for the service impact. There might be something strange about the way that users got deleted. We reset the instance earlier today, thus hopefully this resolves the service issue. Though the root cause is yet to be determined.

On the GitHub issues: Yes, we are a bit behind. The list grew quicker then we were able to work off the backlog. One of the exciting things about the MongoDB acquisition is the ability to staff up our client teams and make again headway into the backlog. There are many long-term improvements that we were working on in the background that we can now accelerate.

@freeubi: Feel free to contact sales ([email protected]) to inquire. Our folks are friendly.

@tomsjansons: You got impacted in a similar manner to wildfisher. Thanks for opening a support ticket. Hopefully we can resolve this quickly.


#7

Contacting sales is not an option, and you know that.
I am happy with the $30 plan, while I developing, but after release…
There is no way that I can expect those numbers, and (like the previous event) we need to react asap.


#8

Hi Tom,
We are curious to understand how you have experienced any breaking changes. We follow semantic versioning, so you should not get any breaking changes that haven’t been communicated and tracked with the appropriate version updates and release notes.


#9

I also find it very hard to predict costs and this is the number one reason I am still not live with Realm Platform after struggling with it ever since it was first released. There is very little information to find about pricing. I have been in contact with sales and I have received a few examples, but is still very hard to predict.

I know for a fact that storage will be the main limiting factor for me, yet there is no way to find out how much storage that is being used. There is an option to recalculate size in Realm Studio, but it doesn’t show the info anywhere, it is nowhere to be found in the realm cloud portal and it is not listed in the invoice either. If charging per usage, you should be able to clearly see the measurements yourself.

Another reason is error handling. For example I opened this issue about a year ago https://github.com/realm/realm-java/issues/5944 and it hasn’t been resolved yet.

I do want to use the Realm Platform and I am already heavily invested in developing for the platform, but I am still starting to consider other options based on my own experiences and the issues raised in this thread.


#10

I am still waiting for an answer to the initial question:

Does anybody use Realm Cloud for production?

We are heavily invested in Realm for a project as well.

Another post above mentions moving to Firebase… my .02

Our other project started with Firebase years ago and we moved it to Realm because Firebase suddenly dropped support for macOS with v2 -> v3. That was a HUGE investment of time, energy and money. Moving from NoSQL to a more SQL/Object environment required a total re-thinking of our database and a total re-write of the back end. Going the other way would also present significant challenges and an enormous time investment so if you’re thinking about doing that - plan accordingly.


#11

I’m using realm cloud for my app Big Hike. On the dashboard, the quotas section in the bottom right isn’t filled out - I think realm isn’t tracking that very closely for now. My database is a few hundred mb and I have 50 users or so - I’ve seen 5gb used up in the last 30 days.


#12

Firebase works on macOS too, see here.


#13

I share the same concerns.

I have been developing an app for several months now using Realm Cloud, but I’m not sure how reliably this will work on production. Reading threads like this one makes me have second thoughts.

I had to send several emails to sales to get an idea on how pricing scales, in order to make a projection of my cost structure, and I still have my doubts… Not sure how Realm size is calculated and Realm Studio is not calculating it in my case, not sure why…

Also, I encounter difficulties when developing some simple tasks, which makes me wonder if things are still in beta (tasks like mentioned in https://forums.realm.io/t/check-when-syncing-is-done/2381). I hope things will mature with the acquisition… but I see the acquisition as an additional risk lol, so idk.

I’m still betting on Realm Cloud because I really like how things were thought through and saves me a lot of development time. I bind everything with Rx and things just work, almost without implementing a single web service, parser or mapper, and being able to easily sync complex object graphs in real time, it’s awesome.


#14

To answer your initial question - we do have a number of customers who are using the cloud in production. Admittedly, the ones we actively work with are on dedicated plans. For customers on the $30 plan, we don’t have a mechanism currently to distinguish between a development and a production instance, so we don’t have the data readily available to say what percentage of those are using it in production.


#15

@nirinchev
I have heard exactly the same reply from support, thanks )
I assume if there were any success stories of those who use Shared Cloud for production you share them on your site.

The problem is:
Shared Cloud $30 plan does not include any support though I can admit that support answered all my questions so far. Thank you guys for this.

Shared Cloud $250 plan includes 5x9 support but no uptime is guaranteed. 5x9 support means if something fails you will probably should wait at least for the bext day to be resolved.
As in my case, the realm was unavailable for 2 days. And sometimes we have experienced several hours downtimes. It is not suitable for production.

I have contacted Sales and they offered me Dedicated Cloud plan as an option with higher stability, more suitable for a production application.
But the pricing for Dedicated Cloud excludes opportunity to make a simple application profitable. It does not suit small teams as we are.
Pricing is per Monthly Active Devices.
It starts from $7,500 per year for 1,000 Montly Active Devices.
On Google Play we need to provide users with some trial period before they buy a subscription. It is a normal practice. Assuming 5% of users convert to paying subscribers I will have only 50 paying users from 1000 monthly active devices. These 50 users should pay for all ))
In our niche they won’t pay $20/montly to compensate a Dedicated Cloud plan.
It is just rough estimation and I explained all aspects to Sales in details.
Moreover, users on Google Play have subscription attached to an account, not to a device. Many of them have several devices and wish to use the application on all of their devices.
Such pricing is not competitive at all.
And with Shared Cloud we are at great risk losing our audience.


#16

@MartinHennrich

Thanks for the Firebase link. I’ve been working with that project since it’s inception - Firebase officially doesn’t support macOS and while this is an awesome open source, third party project, it would have a long way to go before it could be used in a full blown macOS production environment. It’s also a bit challenging to get up and running compared to the official iOS version

Keep in mind that macOS and tvOS are not officially supported by Firebase, and this repository is actively developed primarily for iOS

I would still like to hear from people that are using Realm Cloud in a production environment, whether is be a $30 plan or a $3000 plan. What is their experience? Cloud stability? Downtime vs uptime.


#17

@wildfisher when you have outages, what happens then? Does this just mean that synchronization is paused or does this mean that your users may have lost data?


#18

@wildfisher I understand your concerns. We don’t make support guarantees for the $30 users because we need to ensure that the enterprise customers’ problems are resolved as soon as possible. That being said, as you have noticed, we do our best to reply to all support inquiries, even if it takes a little longer.

Regarding cloud stability - we are doing our best to ensure all instances, regardless of the plan they’re on, have a “good” uptime. Obviously, we need to prioritize our resources and, admittedly, we will not escalate instance unavailable alerts that fire during the weekend for non-dedicated instances. That being said, outages as long as yours are extremely rare and historically, the combined uptime of all instances is more than 99.9%.

The cause of your outage was a sneaky bug in one of our native modules that manifested itself in rare cases when deleting users. We have identified the root cause and are working on a fix that will be rolled out as soon as possible. While this is not directly related to your question, I wanted to point out that we’re continuously improving the system and, while we don’t make uptime guarantees for the $30 plan, we do care deeply about each instance’s availability and have internal targets that we’re aiming for.

Ultimately our goal is to allow production apps to be hosted on any plan and many are. I understand and am sorry that your experience hasn’t been as great as we’d like it to be, but we’re absolutely focused on fixing the bug you hit and hope that you’ll have a much smoother experience once we do.


#19

@Sipe
Users do not lose their data. Synchronization is paused but main problem is that new users can’t register in the application since during registration they should be registered in Realm sever and create their database shared with colleagues.
Imagine the user downloaded the application from Google Play and can’t start to work with it properly.

@nirinchev
I understand the point about the inability to provide high-end service for $30 but it seems to me that another Shared Cloud $250 plan does not guarantee much more than $30 plan.
$250 plan also has 5x9 support, right? Low chances for 24-hours uptime.

The current bug with deleting users may be understandable, but what if the similar serious bug appears in the future?
For now, the main advice from support is ‘to not delete users unless absolutely necessary’
What is such function is included in the production application? Certainly, each user may require an ability to delete all his data.

I appreciate every help I get from support. Just saying that the current Shared Cloud is not suitable for production and Dedicated Cloud is too costly for small teams. It is costly not only for small teams but for most application targeted to mass market and charging users less than 20 dollars per year.
Also, Montly Active Devices pricing won’t work for mass market since 80% of users install, test and uninstall the application and all of them are counted towards Miontly Active Devices.


#20

@wildfisher thanks for letting me know. I do agree that pricing is a problem. It basically rules out using Realm Cloud for storing user data in freemium apps. Combined with that it is hard to predict pricing (no public info, no way to measure storage) it gets tough.

What I am building for my app is only to let paid users store their user data on the cloud. Free users will still be logged in, but can only use one device at a time and will have a simpler backup solution based on FirebaseStorage. For me it may be a way forward, even though it is a pain to have to build dual backup solutions because of pricing. I can still make use of some features of realm cloud for free users though, but pricing really gets in the way.